So, my previous post on Trevor Loudon, ACT's vice-president, generated a hell of a lot of comments on this blog. You should at least read the initial post before this one, but reading the comments, Trevor's half-arsed reply and maybe even the feature on Aotearoa Indymedia in order to see where this story is at.
Trevor offers a few answers. I'll go through them here.
One is that the claim of ties and expulsion is a total fabrication on the part of the author/authors, or Mr Zandbergen.
He manages to extrapolate this sentance into two more or less identical possibilities – ie, either the NZ Herald or New Force were lying when they talked about ZAP (and their front group TRIM)'s ties to New Force.
As mentioned numerous times in comments on both blogs, Paul Spoonley (a sociologist at Massey University) published a book called The Politics of Nostalgia on fascism/racism in Aotearoa/New Zealand. This book talks at length about ZAP and it's ties to the fascist extreme right in Christchurch (where ZAP was founded). Combine that with the NZ Herald article, and I think you can clearly see that ZAP and New Force had links of some sort.
Trev then goes on, trying to find more excuses – first, maybe New Force, as a pseudo political party, recieved a letter from TRIM or maybe it was even personal correspondance from a member of ZAP/TRIM. These explanations are simply too stupid to even bother refuting – even fascists know the difference between membership/support and a personal letter or lobbying propaganda.
Next, Trevor attempts to compare ZAP to the Catholic Church (talk about ego!) and states that just as 1 or 2 rogue Catholics can't be taken to represent the Church, neither can 1 or 2 rogue fascists be taken to represent ZAP.
A commenter on this blog, Scott, put it well when he stated
Anyone who reads Spoonely’s account of the far right scene in Chch in the 70s and 80s and the rise of ZAP and its front group TRIM can see that the organisations were completely centralised, based as they were on the authority of the bizarre John Dahlhorf, who was known to his disciples as John Ultimate. Spoonely quotes several primary documents, including a letter from Ultimate to his folowers, which make his absolute authority clear (in the letter he talks of reading group members’ minds in his dreams).
The notion that a significant number of members of a tiny, close-knit, centralised froup like ZAP were involved in New Force/the NWP without the say-so of Ultimate is not credible.
May 24, 2006 at 6:01 pm
And yet you hide here and continue to make up more badly researched allegations about the man. If name calling is the best you can do, then I guess that is why none of these “facts” will never see the light of day in the MSM. Good luck in your Nazi hunting!
May 24, 2006 at 6:36 pm
Clint – If you want me to spend a little more time on this, I’d be more than happy to go to the library and scan in any of the dozens of articles (mostly from the Christchurch Press) detailing the complete and utter joke that is the cult ZAP. I’m also happy to start talking about the World Anti Communist League, a very dodgy group that Trevor Loudon was the New Zealand representative for….
I have a feeling Trev might not want that sort of stuff in the public domain…
May 24, 2006 at 6:40 pm
Oh well Trev will never resign, not that it really matter as Act won’t make it through the next election. God knows how they made it through the last one!!!
When Act does fall and Trev looses his great power, all us reds can come out from under the bed and bring Stalin, Mao and Lenin back to life to enslave the world!!!!! (insert evil laugh)
May 24, 2006 at 8:30 pm
It’s been so long since I took the time to educate Libertarianz about politics and economics that I totally forgot what a political kindergarten it is. Just where is Asher “hiding” Clint, you mean on the internet? Where anyone in the world can see what he’s written? You mean on Indymedia? A public forum where anyone can post and comment on news? You mean behind a computer screen? Like where you’re hiding making that comment?
I remember you having more clues when you were the Prez of Preb’s Rebs. You been drinking lead paint or something?
Love and hugs
Strypes
June 6, 2006 at 10:37 pm
truely tiresome trev has a page on wikipedia, that currently is very one-sided in his favour. It needs some objective neutral editors to add all the other stuff about him. Add this stuff in scuprulously neutral point of view language with references of course.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trevor_Loudon
March 25, 2007 at 6:19 pm
No
January 9, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Nutter? What gives you the right to use such a derogatory term. Do you have no respect for the sufferers of mental illness and their friends, family whanau?
October 15, 2008 at 8:58 pm
I don’t care what you let your wingnuts do down there but at least have the decency to keep your trash at home.
You ought to see some of the @#$ he posts in the United States, and it is pretty well known who he is no matter what lie he tells, he is enough of a fool to boast of his handiwork in the Shire. And his picture kinda gives him away.
I would think your govenment would do something about this ‘ambasssador’ of yours, Trevor Loudon., at least for the sake of your nations reputation.
There has been speculation online here in the US he posts ti the United States as part of his rehabilitative therapy from the nut barn in Christchurch.
Chris, United States
PS. Don’t beleive me? Log into some of our polical discussion forums and see who posts what from Christchurch. This creature must spend most of his days online talking his trash.
October 22, 2008 at 2:35 pm
Chris, I’d completely forgotten about TL until I read a post made by you, I suspect, on Lawyers, Guns and Money which led me here.
How do you propose the rest of New Zealand keeps him off the WWW seeing as the first W stands for “world” and all that? I’m sure I’ve posted in America too. In fact I am right now aren’t I seeing as wordpress is registered in California.
I’ve seen some nutjob posts on the NZ Herald from Americans. Imagine that, Americans being able to find an NZ newspaper online and post to it. The cheek! Would you please round them up and keep them off there. Thanks!
Having said all that, TL is indeed a nutter.
May 20, 2009 at 7:19 pm
Rebecca:
When a political party vice chairman in the United States (Either Republican or Democrat) writes such nonsense and posts as Trevor Loudon does, in your newspapers, you have grounds for complaint.
Let alone spends his time openly trying to interfere with your elections.
He has even claimed he scoped out how to poison Clinton at a diplomatic function, which we reported to our Secret Service, on one board.
He is a bit past some random United States citizen sending a letter you don’t like to the editor of the New Zealand Herald.
If Hillary Clinton or Steele go off their roackers and send a letter to the editor down there about what fascist morons New Zealanders are for electing a criminal band of ex-nazis like Keys and company or some other similar trash, it is a bit different. They are representing the United States.
ACT is part of your coalition government formed during your last election. And Loudon is an officer in that party.
So yes, it is a bit different. Here he would publicly be tossed from his party, and possibly subject to criminal prosecution for using a governmental position for such conduct.
Chris.
May 20, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Chris – FYI, Trev isn’t an office holder in ACT anymore. Word is even they thought he was too nutty.
Also, its Key, not Keys, and while he’s a prick with terrible politics, calling him an ex-nazi is ridiculous and offensive, especially considering his Jewish heritage.